Folks at MAX saw Damon Cooper demo RDS support in Eclipse - the most requested feature for the CFEclipse project. I will be working with the CFEclipse team over the next few weeks to help them put together a roadmap and release schedule so hopefully we will soon be able to say when you might expect RDS support in a CFEclipse build.

What I'd like to hear about are other things you'd like to see in CFEclipse. Not the small, niggling little bug fixes - there's a good process in place for managing those (the bug tracker on Tigris). What I want to hear about are the bigger concerns, the futures. What could CFEclipse do to make your life as a developer easier? How can CFEclipse help you write better code?

I'll be posting some of my thoughts over the next few weeks in this new cfeclipse category - stay tuned!

the ability to drag an image to the code, and it pre-fill the height/width is one of the most important features for me when i'm doing ui work.

thanks! tony

the ability to have datasource introspection when typing in the cfquery tag space. also column introspection, etc.

this might already exist, but i cannot find it, word wrap line wrap, whatever you want to call it :)

thanks!

CFC introspection when the type can be "guessed" (this was partially implemented at one point w/ xml files you can edit, I'm not sure how much farther it's gotten).

Pie-in-the-sky is an accompanying modeling tool that supports roundtrip engineering of CFCs (built on EMF perhaps?)

Tony, line / word wrap would be hard to implement without breaking code collapse. This has been discussed at length on the CFEclipse users mailing list, BTW. For UI work, I'd recommend Dreamweaver - CFEclipse will never be a tool for UI design. However, if tag insight for the img tag let you browse to a file and then automatically added correct height and width attributes, I can see that being useful.

homesite has code collapse right? homesite also has word wrap, right?

or is code collapse something else?

Yes, and they were probably both designed into HomeSite at the same time.

Eclipse itself makes it hard to implement both at the same time.

i see.

ok, well. ill still wish for it.

maybe someone out there can figure out a way to make it happen. maybe not. like you said its been hashed out on the lists in great detail and if they could they would, im sure.

hasta

Sean,

are you after "big ticket features" or annoying niggly things and buggy behavour that prevent people from moving over?

for mine, it's the little stuff that's killing the idea of me using Eclipse. I have tried but I just get more go using Homesite, notepad + windows explorer (for CVS). CFEclipse just gets in the way of my workflow.

A co-worker beside me is using cfeclipse but he's willing to accept the compromises that I'm not and his evangilism of features isn't a big deal in comparison....

just my 2c

I would absolutly LOVE for CFE to be able to have something akin to microsoft's intellesence. IE, if I create an instance of an object, when I hit period after typing the instance name, I'd love to see a list of methods in that object. I must be senile or something, but I have the hardest time remembering method names. I'm always looking them up.

Also, I'd love for the arguments accepted by a method to show when I type "(" and "," as I'm writing out the method call.. I'm sure you know what I mean. :)

Couldn't something like this be done by, if nothing else, parsing the CFC manually? Or using RDS somehow or other?

Frankly, this one feature would be killer for me.

Couple of things I would like.

1. Cfimport / Custom tag introspection. The ability for the page to know what custom tags an import tag has just imported and details of the attributes inside without having to write custom xml files.

2. UML designer / CFC/Class/Function/Property Stub Creator.

3. CFC / Function Introspection

4. Maybe make the Navigator tree for cfc's like the java class navigator?

I'm sure I've got a couple of other things I think would be handy, but I cant think of them right now.

I would love to see some of the Java eclipse refactoring options available for use in CFCs. Moving methods up and down the inheritance tree. Creating new methods from selected code. Gereration of getter and setters and replacing existing references to those variables with the new getter and setters. These are some of the refactoring items that could be very usefull for CFeclipse. Some of the not simple to do because of the typelessness of CF.

CFC and webservice drag and drop functionality similar to what is available in dreamweaver would also be nice.

One of the big features that I miss is MS SCCapi integration. I know there is VS, CVS, SVN support but at work we use a revesion control that is not currently support by eclipse. But does support the MS SCC api. I would love to see this supported in CFeclipse or as an eclipse plugin.

Daniel, all good feedback, thanx! On the SCC stuff, I'm a little surprised that there isn't a generic SCC plugin available (but I haven't looked).

Gareth, Doug, good feedback too.

Barry, I'm mostly after big ticket stuff but if "little stuff" is stopping you from using CFEclipse, I'd like to hear the specifics of that too.

just wanted to clarify that when I (and I think others) say "introspection", we mean the Intellisense/Code Insight style features found in most major IDEs.

I would love to see some sort of scripting engine in CFE, a la Beans Scripting Framework. Just like Homesite+ support for WSH. I used that feature for all sorts of trivial tasks, e.g. inserting a comment with my initials and the current date.

Please also add the right click "Edit Tag" feature of Homesite+ that pops up the dialog box with the tag attributes. That is a very handy feature.

I agree about the CFC stuff. It would be very cool to make CFC introspection function like Java class introspection in Eclipse.

when you say rds, do you mean rds deployment, or just remote editing? because that's the deal breaker for me with cfe is deployment. i'd love to be able to right-click files in the project and deploy to multiple rds/ftp servers at once.

Rich, could you explain what you mean? Is that something you can do with RDS today in HomeSite+? (I don't use HomeSite+ and I don't have RDS enabled on any of my servers so I'm not entirely familiar with what it can do).

Right, you can define all your RDS servers and FTP servers, either globally to the app, or specific to individual projects. Right-click a file or folder in the Project pane, select Deploy File, check off all the servers to which it should deploy, and off it goes.

This is extremely useful when working in a multiserver (dev/qa/uat/production) environment.

Editing files directly on the server via RDS, OTOH, is something I rarely use.

Once upon a time I used the deployment stuff in Homesite+, but I dropped it because of a funny situation with source control. I would deploy from a checked-in (and read-only) copy of code. Homesite+ would deploy correctly, but it would deploy the files as read-only, then when I tried to deploy new versions over them, it would fail because the existing versions were read-only.

Overall, though, the deployment stuff is very cool. It takes advantage of the WSH integration, Sean. It is more or less a wizard that builds a .js file to copy your code, then executes the script. It allows you to save/modify your script and therefore do stuff like replace source files/folders for particular destinations (so you can if needed have your config files for multiple servers deployed through a single script, for instance).

All the more reason for the BSF integration.

For the deployment Ant should be considered. I suppose it doesn't have RDS but it could be added to it propably pretty easily.

Using Ant would give you more control how to deploy code but basic deployment script is really easy to do.

Rob, I would also suggest investigating ant as Tero suggests. I'll talk to Dean about the RDS deploy stuff tho' (Dean Harmon, CF product team, author of the RDS Eclipse code).

I've only just gotten into CFEclipse a little bit, but would it ever be possible to make the IDE rich enough to have the customized tag editors (right click > edit current tag) and Tag Inspector sidebar that HomeSite uses?

Homesite was way ahead of its time by using an xml language to create GUI (it's amazing that only now is mxml & xamal technology catching up). But it is such an great feature because it makes it super easy to code, and if you're compelled enough you can even customize them or make your own.

Maybe it would even be possible to translate Homesite VTM editors into some new xml dialect. This could be used to extend or replace the current cfeclipse system for hints / help / color coding.

I'd be willing to help.

Jordan

I've been using the CF Enterprise Admin Archive/Deploy stuff because it creates a nice audit trail for SOX purposes, but it is a little cumbersome to deal with.

Ant is definitely what I would use if I were not already using Archive/Deploy.

Great to see you are on-board Sean!

A few answers to the issues that have propped up in the comments.

One of the main features I would like to see is introspection/compiling of cf code so that the errors you get are not from the syntax library but from CF actually telling you what is wrong. This could also provide "intellisense" for CFC's

Another would be debugging of code integrated into the IDE.

I wont mention word wrap .. its a sore issue. I dont need it myself but prefer the code folding.

In Reply to Rob Munn's post, he should try the snippets, I use them to insert my name, date, current file etc into documentation and other useful bits of code: see here for more details http://cybersonic.blogspot.com/2004/09/eclipse-and-cf-eclipse-shortcuts.html

RDS is already in the works and was shown at MAX I belive. I for one will be doing some work soon on it soon to integrate it into a per-project basis.

With regards to tag editors, there is un-implemented code to do this, the reson I havent implemented it is that it needs to be a "full feature" so that you can both insert and edit tags . Some tags have a huge number of attributes so we need to find a way to lay out these dialogs. I would like to build a custom tag "add" dialog so that your tags can be added easily to the dictionary.

Other features I would like to implement include: 1) Integrated Help (in the works) 2) Logging/Monitoring integration 3) Debugging 4) CFC & Webservice lists (using RDS?)

Again, great to have you on board Sean!

The things I can't live without were all in Homesite/CFStudio:

- Ability to jump to first non-whitespace character in a line (I find the absence of this to be an A-List pain - and it's something that pretty much every other text-editor and IDE I've ever used can do)

- Highlight current tag (I find this sooo useful when updating/repurposing tag-based code)

- Split window view (indespensible when working with long mach-ii.xml files, long complex views, etc)

- The ability to insert a snippet simply by typing a key-combination, without needing to first insert some trigger text. Being required to do this prevents one from highlighting a block within the file and surrounding it with opening and closing snippet code (at least, by using the keyboard alone). I've got dozens of key combinations assigned to snippets in Homesite, and being able to insert them instantly without having to reach for the mouse enables me to rattle along at rapid pace.

- RDS would be very nice indeed, although if I had to choose, I'd rather have the above features as their absence slows me down and makes me feel that I'm less productive in CFEclipse than in Homesite.

- Oh yes (this one relatively trivial, but...), the ability to open folders in the file manager, snippet view, etc. with a double-click instead of needing to aim and fire at the tiny plus sign (is this a general Java issue?)

Apart form these things, I find CFEclipse and Eclipse in general to be pretty awsome. Heck, they even look great!

To sort of reiterate what has already been asked...

Intellisense :)

Image tag / Flash Tag width/height generation - Or full attribute editting.

One thing I have missed from Homesite+ is the ability to see the control/non visible characters in a file.

Ive been using CFEclipse for nearly a year now and although at times it can slow down (esp. with all the other java apps running at the same time) I dont think I would go back to HomeSite+ now.

I've just converted over and am getting to like CFEclipse (AND especially that I can use the same editor on my Mac at home and Windows at work).

First off some little things;

1. A better resource site; there are several good sites or blogs that cover how to use CFEclipse but it is crying out for a central resource. cfeclipse.org would be good for this.

2. 2 file explorer tabs (ala Homesite)

3. Word wrap, yup I've read all the comments about why it can't be done, etc but its the one thing I miss from Homesite (I also hardly ever use code collapse).

4. This would be awesome. CFC drag/drop. My dream would be I have a normal cf file open in the editor window, I can then browse through cfc's in another window, examine them similar to opening a cfc in the outline view, pick the function I want and drag it into my code with it formatted for all arguments, returns, etc.

Word wrap

You know... it just occured to me that a Dreamweaver-style find and replace dialog would ROCK for CFE. Frankly, the Eclipse find and replace is a little anemic.

Word wrap, s'il vous plait?

SSH support in the file transfer manager would be great, we don't use no stinkin' FTP 'round these here parts.

Damien

Some of these may be already in eclipse, but I couldnt find them, some are little things (but little things are what keeps me on homesite):

- integrated help - right click tag wizards - global search and replace - auto backup - debugging like flex builder2 (I know cf isnt mxml but maybe something along those lines) - add more/custom toolbars to the top - color palette picker - code sweep - special characters view

(not sure why that last post was all jammed together, here is my list (this topic is important to me, sorry for the double post):

- integrated help

- right click tag wizards

- global search and replace

- auto backup

- debugging like flex builder2 (I know cf isnt mxml but maybe something along those lines)

- add more/custom toolbars to the top

- color palette picker

- code sweep

- special characters view

Something else I forgot to mention: easy search & replace across either the current file, selected files in the file manager, or the entire current project. Its a pain right now to have to go through and set up individual configurations for each project just to do a search/replace. This is another reason why I use DWMX2004.

Damien

The ability to compile the site to an ear or war file without having to go to the ColdFusion admin to do it! Ear or war deployment is a lot easier (and cleaner!) than deploying single files one at a time or directory updating. Especially if you do any kind of refactoring where files are supposed to be deleted, and they never get done.

What is being called intellisense, yeah we need that bad. Also how about defining private fields, hit a key command, and get a menu for creating getters and or setters for those fields as well as an init method where you can select which fields are used for arguments. I know there's obviously going to be an issue with type, but maybe this can be worked around by writing fields a certain way, <cfset variables.userID = 0 /> is numeric. Being ably to do this from within a cfc is leaps and bounds more efficient that using one of the online bean creator tools.

Ctrl+Y to delete a line of code, or any easy key command to do that - it was in Homesite and is in many other editors.

A cleaner perspective - FB2 did a great job of moving everything I don't need out of the way. I'd like to see this cleaned up a little bit in CFE.

Some kind of built in gateway event triggering/monitoring would be intresting. For example, instead of me leaving my editor to go to that little cell phone app to type something in and send it to the gateway just to test the code I was just looking at, maybe something like the popular componentInvoker thats floating around, but for gateways. I guess it's hard to explain exactly - but hopefully you catch my drift.

The main wish I have is for tag-insight to work with CSS while inside of a .cfm template. Also, how about tag-insight into .cfc methods, that would be huge! =)

I was starting to think I was the only one still hanging on to homesite, but I'm glad to find I'm not the only one unsatisfied with Dreamweaver.

I wonder why Macromedia won't just give up trying to force DW down the throats of hand coders, they've been trying for over 2 years now.

Homesite won't be updated, so instead they should make a commitment in a BIG way to make the ColdFusion tools developers want for Eclipse. They should commit a bunch of java developers full time to contribute to CFEclipse project until they create a commercial quality, feature rich plugin before ColdFusion market share slips even further.

RAD needs a world class IDE, Macromedia's job is half complete with the Eclipse platform.

The search and replace is horrible and would do well to copy jedit's search and replace(jEdit's search and replace is better than any I've seen).

The file navigator needs to pull in drive names not just drive letters, when I am working on a network with 20 drives I have no idea which drive letters are dev/prod/test/xyz etc.

When I have a file open I want to see the full path to the file somewhere!

The word wrap is a big issue for me as well, personally I'd rather have word wrap than code folding, maybe there could be a setting that allows you to use one of the features and disable the other?

The intellisense stuff would be great!

I would like to be able to set code completion to activate when I type </ just like the feature that was added to DW8

These features would be very nice!

I would really like the code insight to be optimized to be quicker. As it is now I can type in the code faster than it takes the insight to appear. I find myself typing out the entire code, whereas Dreamweaver would let me type just a couple letters and I could zip through it quickly.

That would help me out a bunch.

I had a nice comment typed up last night but Firefox crashed before I had a chance to submit it, so let's try this again.

To reiterate many comments which have already been stated:

- Intellisense or whatever it's correct moniker is for introspecting CFC methods, etc

- UML roundtrip engineering

- I would much rather have word wrap over code folding since I tend to clean-up code that has been commented out since it's already in source control if I need to revert-- maybe it could be an either/or option?

- One thing I do like about Dreamweaver.. you can right click on a tag and you get the pop-up box with all of that tags attributes, etc. Helpful for those tags you don't use very often and can't remember all of the attributes for.

Some things I haven't seen:

- Some sort of code checker/scanner which can look for bad coding practices, code which is not thread safe, etc. You could edit options for it to do things such as report attributes which were missing such as hints or data types, etc... it would also be able to warn you about places where you're using platform specific code.

- A way to quickly generate test stubs for CFC's by introspecting them, and maybe even some sort of JUnit or cfcUnit integration?

- A total "what if" thing... a way to manage all JRun J2EE instances on a given subnet.. or along the same lines, at least a way to integrate instance restarts into Ant?

- Something that generates JavaDoc like documentation for CFC's (only less ugly) in an exportable format like html, rtf, etc.

- If UML engineering were implemented, it would be cool if you could generate stub controllers for the various frameworks, a config file for Coldspring, etc.

- A way to run an instance of CF inside of Eclipse for debugging, testing, etc.

I've just remembered a couple of extra items that I failed to include in my list above (these seem pretty trivial compared to some of the requests above, but here goes anyway):

- Full path to current file displayed within the application title bar

- The ability to hide the toolbar to maximise screen real estate (it's kind of a waste having buttons on the screen that I never use)

I would vote for intellisense and a better refactoring support (similar to what eclipse offer as Java development IDE).

Daniel:

There is a plugin for MS Sourcesafe which is quite useful and I have been using it at my work for the past several months.

I've seen several criticisms of Eclipse's search / replace feature. I find it to be very powerful (you can search / replace across directories, projects, selected files, current file - pretty much anything).

Could folks who are asking for "better" search / replace explain what they are looking for here?

One other thing I'd added last night but just remembered:

- A way to easily create mutators & accessors by highlighting words which have line breaks between them, and/or by highlighting a bunch of <cfset>'s the same way that you can do in Java in Eclipse.

Here are few refactoring that I can think of right now based on my Java decelopment experience with Eclipse

Change method signature.

Renaming a method should also update all it reference in the current project.

Move method up or down the inheritance hierarchy.

Seriously Sean, go take a look at the jEdit search and replace, if it doesn't hit you at first then take a couple of days trying out it's features and i'll bet you will want to see some changes made to the ui of the search and replace in eclipse. If you do try this be sure to turn hypersearch on.

But because that's kind of dodging your question I'll try to list it out.

I have to go to two different windows to do search and replace on a single file vs multiple files. I can't do search and replace over a selection. I cant set the scope of the search/replace to a single folder or subtree of folders. When i get search results back it's only broken down by file and number of occurences, where as I would love to see each instance show up in the search results tree. Being able to view old searches in my search results view at the same time as a current search. Not to forget overall user interface improvements.

scripting ability. In homesite you could write scripts to automate thing in the editor using javascript. This make adding your own functionality fairly easy. There may already be a plugin for eclipse that allows something like this but I am not sure. As far as MS SCC api I have not found a eclipese plugin that provides this. There is a VSS plugin but that only works with VSS. We are using Component Software RCS which does integrate with SCC api but does not have a plugin for eclipse. At least on windows of there was a SCC api plugin for eclipse then any revision control that worked in homesite or dreamweaver would work in cfeclipse.

Paul, I used to use jEdit but I didn't think it's search and replace was all that hot. I guess it's a very subjective thing. As for Eclipse's search and replace (and it's Eclipse core functionality, not CFEclipse), you can indeed set the scope of the search to a subtree of folders. The find/replace dialog has history and will show previous search and replace terms. I see what you mean about not actually seeing search results in the search pane (although I don't miss that as much as I expected - I use the next/prev search results buttons to just jump through code).

One thing to point out is that some of the requests in this thread are for changes to core Eclipse functionality, not just CFEclipse, so those would, obviously, be harder to implement. And, yes, I know that the line between Eclipse and CFEclipse isn't always very clear!

Keep the suggestions coming - this is all very valuable feedback!

Sean -- delighted to see that you are getting involved with this project.

As a CFEclipse user I was very excited to hear Macromedia support the project. So far, though, their input seems to be a crappy web site (cfeclipse.org) and talk of RDS. Thats piss poor.

So, now, you are fully onboard I agree with most of the ideas above but most important is that CFEclipse needs to be POLISHED; an improved interface, better explainations of how to use the tool, etc. Make it something awesome. It currently is a very cool open source project but it is not of the quality that should be associated with the name Macromedia. (And that is not a slight on anyone who has worked on the project).

Thanks for the reply Sean, and as soon as I figure out how to do all of those things with the search in eclipse improving the search functionality will come off of my wish list.

It does speak to how bad the interface is if you can tell me that I can do all of those things with eclipse and I can't figure out how to do them, when I have been using the tool for 7 months.

I agree with most of the items above. I have been using eclipse sice CFUnited, and these are the things I miss/want/desire/need.... - Code completion that works correctly - FTP functionality (still have to go back to DW for this) - Better documentation on how to use the tool, I often struggle to find how to do something in the editor. - CFC Introspection (always worth repeating) - CTL+SHIFT+Z is ReDo, not color pallet

All for now

One word . . . documentation. CFEclipse is a very powerful tool, yet documentation is sparse at this point. Yes, there are several books about Eclipse, but these are geared towards Java developers.

one more thing:

Homesite 6 (with all the cool things about eclipse, all the cool things about dreamweaver, and a newer looking interface)

:) why not just make Homesite all that much better, and just focus there?

why the cfeclipse adoption?

just wondering.

Tony, HomeSite is a Delphi codebase and therefore Windows-only. CFEclipse provides a cross-platform solution for ColdFusion developers.

so then i guess my answer is... (and i guess a fairly good portion of the folks around) anything that homesite+ has the cfeclispe doesn't

and all the accoutrements that come with cfeclipse and the open sourceness and cross platformness that abounds!

tw

I keep EditPlus open at all times when I'm using Eclipse becuase Eclipse can't (or doesn't) support the following two features.

1. word wrap 2. columnar select

Now, I know the issues with both. I have spoken with Spike about it before - but it doesn't change the fact that I would love to see them in CFEclipse.

In Editplus I can't do columnar select if word wrap is on. Now, I have no real idea of how the buffers work in Eclipse (or Editplus for that matter) however, it seems like the Editplus approach might be viable for Eclipse.

Code Folding, Wordwrap, and Columnar Select would be mutually exclusive. Or, in simpler terms, you could only use one of the features at a time.

The only other thing I would like in Eclipse (and this has nothing to do with CFEclipse) is for it to start faster, be more responsive, and generally not hog as many resources :O)

I find the code folding invaluable when dealing with larger CFCs and the Method Outline pane is really handy.

Oh, the parser shouldn't require a closing tag for everything. For instance if I have cfmodule and don't have a closing cfmodule or a / then the parser doesn't work so well and I don't get all of the methods in the method outline pane.

I don't remember if this was fixed but ignore case of cftags. When my company first started using CF back in cf4.7 we put all of the CF tags in UPPERCASE and all html in lowercase so that you could distinguish between the two quickly upon opening a file. However, when I first started using CFECLIPSE it didn't parse all caps CF tags.. Again, this might be fixed - I don't remember sorry.

I'd like to see the favorite folders feature of Homesite added to CFEclipse. If it's already there, I haven't found it yet.

I'm not sure what a favorite folders feature is (i never used homesite) but you can create working sets which are related groups of folders within or inclusive of projects. I use working sets pretty heavilly. You can get to them by clicking on the little down arrow near the top right of the project listing pane.

I just noticed that PHPEclipse offers both code folding AND word wrap as I'm working in some PHP this morning... maybe you could check out their source code for some ideas?

http://www.phpeclipse.de/

Tag completion similar to DW8 would be nice......if possible....

My votes would be: -The ability to insert a snippet simply by typing a key-combination, without needing to first insert some trigger text. Major Peeve of mine.

-Intellisense. Hey maybe you guys can barrow from Flex Builder. This is very similar to what was shown at the sneak peek for FB @ MAX.

-Code Formatting, an automated way to correctly tab your code blocks. Something like the eclipse plugin called HTML Tidy but more CF friendly.

-Columnar select

- right click tag wizards

-Integrated Server error log reader with line column finder. It would be neat to have a CFMX error log reader with the option of opening file with error and go to the line / column with error. Probably a pipe dream.

I must be living under a rock, eclipse's Find and replace is the most powerful I have ever seen. I would not make any major changes to it. The only improvement I can think of is the option to do a refresh of a project before a search to prevent search errors, due to new files being added to the project.

Mark, good feedback, thanx. For the log reader, check out the plugin Mike Nimer created a while back:

http://www.mikenimer.com/eclipse/logviewer/index.cfm

I have to second the ability that exists in Homesite to drag files into the editor and have the editor automatically figure out the file paths and put the correct code in i.e. for an image it puts in an <IMG> tag with the correct width and height; for a CSS file, it puts a <LINK REL> tag in the page header.

This is the ONLY feature preventing me from using Elipse for CF development. Its just too handy!

not sure if i was the first to go with that second, but here is a third!

:) tw

Oh, and one more thing... Please lets make the drag and dropping of text inside CFE work like all other windows / OS X apps. (This probally is an eclipse issue, not a CFE issue.)

Ah, let me explain that a bit, I meant ctrl + drag and drop to duplicate text. In other programs you can select some text then just hold down ctrl and drag the text to duplicate it. In CFE you must start dragging the text then press ctrl. This is very annoying when switching between several apps.

what would be really good is Faster code hints. Currently the lag on the code hint is so slow.

Tony, have you changed the Insight Delay setting in Preferences... > CFEclipse > Editor?

Hey... let's be honest. We want our cake and we want to eat it to. (Translation: We want to have any features that we see anywhere else... and we want to be using the coolest tool on the market producing the coolest product!)

Bottom line is more what would it take (deal makers) to get us into the product. You already have some of my notes... but to me the issue is what are the deal makers and breakers rather than whats on my wish list.

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